Happy Anniversary Ms Summers…can’t believe it’s 17 years!!
It seems like people are falling to the extremes on the CS thing in this episode. There are the people who think it was OMG AMAZING SO IN LOVE and people who think that there was absolutely nothing shippy/romantic about it at all. As usual, I find both extremes silly.
Yeah, there was pretty much nothing romantic on Emma’s side. But it was the usual puppy dog Hook who’s only interested in helping and doing good if Emma’s around. Emma’s more concerned about family than romance with Hook, Hook’s “so in love” and only willing to help if Emma’s involved (and no, that’s NOT a good thing. Why do people think that’s romantic?) It was really pretty much exactly like most of 3a.
And even if it was completely unromantic in every way possible, my issues with the show go FAR beyond CS. As I’ve said before, it’s not all about shipping for me. CS is just a symptom of the bad writing, which still exists in full force.
The biggest problem of the show is when magical handwaving is used when the writers have clearly written themselves into a corner. Emma drinking the potion is EXACTLY that. Every problem can be solved with magic, which means there are no consequences.
This episode continued with the ‘predictable twist’ problem. Walsh is a flying monkey!? How utterly shocking! Except not, considering pretty much every single person online figured it out at least a month ago.
And that brings up another issue. I think it was a mistake to make Walsh a bad guy instead of just him being a normal guy who loved Emma. Considering the fact that writers should WANT their characters to develop, they seem to be trying to impede that with Emma at every turn. Yes, let’s give her yet another reason to not trust people, It also would have had more dramatic heft to it if he was a nice, normal guy she was in love with who was offering her a happy, normal life. Emma having to choose between that and helping her family would have ACTUAL emotional ramifications. It would feel like a real choice she had to make (you know, CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT). Instead, Walsh is a bad guy so obviously she made the right choice and she doesn’t have to deal with that or struggle with those emotions.
I have some major issues with Aurora’s scenes. I think it was incredibly out of character. Yes, she has her child to think about now. But there was a coldness to her decision, and the fact that she was the one who told them that the castle was still standing, basically sending them there, and then being all “well, we have to tell Zelena that they’re heading exactly to the place where we just sent them”. It just doesn’t jive with the Aurora we saw in season 2. The Aurora who was willing to risk injury, possibly even her life, to help Emma and Snow get back home. Who was so selfless that she stood up to Cora and refused her bait of knowing how to save Phillip. Who took her grief and turned it into something good. Like I said, I get that she has her baby to think of, but the way she did it just wasn’t Aurora. The way she told them to go to the castle and didn’t try to warn them off at all.
I loved Neal wanting to go after Emma. That felt like a moment of genuine emotion. It was really heartfelt. But then the stuff with him and Belle felt really off. They were way too smiley and happy. The lost Rumple (and Neal lost Emma and Henry) a matter of hours ago. Their behavior just doesn’t fit with that. It’s another case of the writers sailing right past character’s emotions in order to move the story forward.
I mentioned this in another post, but for the sake of comprehensiveness I’ll repeat it… I ship Outlaw Queen, but I’m holding off on whether or not I ship it in canon. I like the idea of the ship, the potential of these two personalities together, but I’m wary about how it will be done on the show. I liked their meeting quite a bit, But then they decided to take it too far with the ridiculous scene with Snow acting like a 13 year old girl “Teehee, he’s so cute, you LIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE him!” That made it feel like they were pushing it too hard. Like the writers were saying, “You got that you were supposed to ship them from that meeting, right? Well, if you didn’t, here’s a scene to make sure you do.” And that makes me worry, because it’s making it feel like they’re going to force it and rush it. You know, like this show pretty much always does.
They also continue their run of ignoring uncomfortable storypoints they don’t want to deal with, especially if they make Hook look bad. The last time Aurora saw him he ripped out her heart and helped Cora use it to lock up her and her friends, leaving them to die. And no reaction to seeing him again? Nothing? I’m not saying there needed to be some big confrontation, or even a line. A LOOK. That’s all it would have taken to give that a little continuity. It would take MAYBE five seconds. And how about Hook? Isn’t he supposed to be a good guy now? A hero? Aren’t heroes supposed to feel guilt or remorse for the things they’ve done? We couldn’t get one tiny guilty look from him?
A&E need to learn that if you write it, you’re stuck with it. You don’t just get to ignore it later because it doesn’t fit with the new story you want to do or the direction you want to take the character.
Yeah, the episode was just more of the same. I don’t know for how much longer I’m going to keep watching. A&E clearly don’t know how to run a show
Once Upon a Time Scoop: 15 Enchanted Answers to Your Wicked Midseason Questions!
Efisotiropoulou: Even if Henry does get his memories back, what would Regina and Henry’s relationship be like after all of this?
Unfortunately, we won’t see Henry get his memory back for quite some time and this absolutely crushes Regina. Parilla revealed, “She has a lot of sleepless nights, and there’s a lot of tears that come with that. She’s heartbroken, she’s really heartbroken, but she’s very respectful when it comes to seeing Henry and not pushing it to get him to remember who she is.” However, Parilla told us there is one teeny tiny upside to this curse: “He won’t remember all the bad things about her.”
That is not an upside.
This has me extremely disturbed. I’m all for Regina’s making some progress (though for me it seems to go up and down at times. So far it seems to be okay) and for her relationship with Henry to improve and become more stable for both parties. But the idea of Henry forgetting all that Regina did to him is just horrible.
This seems more like a cheat-sheet than an actual improvement on the relationship.
If you have to make Emma look bad to make Regina look good, you’re doing it wrong.
“How can Neal even have hope with his couple with Emma ? She told him she would prefer him dead !”
Because what she meant was that she would rather have closure than face the uncertainty that she might have to go through the pain of losing him for a third time.
I still fail to see how what happened with Neal and Emma is anyone’s business with Neal and Emma’s.
Also the idea of Hook as a father figure to Neal’s son after what he did to Neal is laughable. Clearly Hook is just as mature as a child himself.
It irks me when people try to lump Regina and Neal together with this stuff going on with Henry.
It this a trick question or a poorly worded one?
Right now, Henry doesn’t know Neal sent Emma to prison. He thinks Neal sent Emma to prison. It’s what Emma believed and therefore what he believes. However, fake!memory Emma didn’t remember meeting Neal again and knowing the circumstances of that night. Knowing the truth. So fake!memory Emma told fake!memory Henry what she thought was the truth, though it wasn’t, about Neal.
But now Emma with memories remembers what the truth is and Henry doesn’t.
So, I would say that would greatly change Henry and Neal’s relationship considering Henry doesn’t remember anything, let alone the truth.
I’m very confused by this. Very, very, very confused. What do you mean he thinks Neal sent Emma to prison? Neal did send Emma to prison. (Even if August called in the tip - though the police alluded that it was Neal who did - the fact remains that Neal had to have told him/them the location and details of the drop. Neal didn’t just walk away, he was directly complicit in landing Emma in jail. That is fact.)
Yes, there were circumstances, in fact JMo used the specific wording of “[Neal] was forced to send her to prison" or that "bad things would have happened”. In a show that continually highlights the importance of individual choice, I’m not sure how this all ties back.
Shipper bias aside, I do think this revelation will affect relationships… because as SFers & CSers alike have already pointed out, Emma’s emotional dysfunction comes more from the fact that she had to give Henry up, rather than the Neal’s betrayal, as shown by her ability to move on with
Now that she has 11+ years of memories of what life could have been like, there’s going to be anger or artic coldness, because now she knows what she missed out on. In fact, the drink scene she shares with Killian indicates that as much as she is grateful to him, she also kinda hates him (Emma was a bit hot n cold with our resident pirate, ngl) a bit for dragging her out of her ‘perfect’ life because she really does care for Walsh.
Anyway, I’m going off tangent. I agree with Schmacky that of course it’ll change the relationship, but where we probably differ in opinion is that if Henry gets his memory back before 3x16, I think he’ll still not quite forgive Neal for not choosing to fight. Anything after 3x16 will grant him a pardon. That’s just my speculation.
Honestly, I can’t wait how to see they handle this. Will Emma introduce Neal as Henry’s biological father, and how Regina’s relationship with him will be handled… and just so many questions, is it Sunday yet?
Adam has said on Twitter many a times that Neal didn’t send her to prison. Adam has also been pretty full of shit before too. But the point remains… we don’t actually know what happened. Who called what. If he even knew at the time she was going to go to jail.
Maybe Neal knew the cops were going to be called on her. Maybe all Neal knew was that August was going to go to her. Maybe he knew nothing about the cops.
Just because he told August where Emma was, doesn’t mean he knew police were going to be called. That is honestly unknown at this point.
So yes, right now, Henry thinks Neal sent Emma to prison.
I’m with Schmacky we don’t know what happen, so its hard to say what we happen. We know August and Neal talked. We know Neal left. We know Emma went to jail based on a tip. We know Neal found out Emma was in jail.
All we can go by is what Adam said. Rather he stay true this I don’t know. But I’m just going to stay with what he said at this time until its proven otherwise.
I didn’t find Schmacky response to the anon confusing at all.
As for Neal and Henry’s relationship I expect more father son angst followed by more father son bonding because this is supposed to be a show about love, forgiveness, hope, and redemption. So I fully expect at the end of the day, Henry will forgive his father and still love his father, just like he would continued to love his mother, Emma, and his mother Regina. If Regina and Snow are being buddy buddy. I am sure Neal and Henry will work it out in the end.
Here are couple tweets from Adam concerning the jail incident. I don’t understand why they are waiting so long with this.
I still want to know what those terrible things were?
Consider me confused by the OP’s question. Henry’s memories are fake. As long as they remain fake, his relationship with/acceptance of Neal could potentially be fraught. But the moment Henry regains his real memories, he should be right back in the emotional and relational place with Neal as he was pre-second Curse, which is to say he was not held back by anything he knew (or didn’t know) about Neal and Emma’s past, and he had gotten over Emma’s lie to him about it. Henry was entirely copacetic with it all. I fully expect him to be so again the moment he has his memory returned to him.
And knowing the speed rate of the show, plot-wise, I don’t expect Henry to be left in the dark for long at all, because the show burns through plot, and because Henry’s storyline is never as central to that plot as it might be. (He’s more of a plot device than a plot-driver)